EXCLUSIVE: MP Jamil Jivani Offers Preview Of Upcoming "End Liberal Racism" Forum
The outspoken Bowmanville—Oshawa North MP is hosting the "National Forum to End Liberal Racism" in Ottawa on November 18.
This coming week, Bowmanville–Oshawa North MP Jamil Jivani will host what he calls the “National Forum to End Liberal Racism.”
The event marks the latest in a series of anti-woke initiatives from Jivani, who has built part of his political profile by openly opposing Diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) programs and what he sees as woke, race-based decision-making in government and other institutions.
Jivani has also been criss-crossing the country, visiting colleges and universities as part of his Restore the North tour to engage with young men.
I spoke with Jivani about his upcoming summit. We also discussed the broader issues surrounding racism in Canada, as well as wokeism and DEI ideology.
Our exclusive interview is below.
Elie Cantin-Nantel: You published a video saying we have to reject “Liberal racism,” and you are now organizing a forum. What is Liberal racism? How do you define it?
Jamil Jivani: Liberal racism is the most recent version of a problem that every generation has had to confront in this country, which is when the government and other institutions stop treating people fairly and equally.
A lot of Canadian history involves groups of people fighting for the government to recognize their equality. This is the most recent version of that. We have a government that treats Canadians differently based on what they look like and where their parents come from. That was wrong 20 years ago. It was wrong 50 years ago. And it is wrong today.
Elie Cantin-Nantel: What made you decide to go from talking about it to actually organizing a forum? Why hold a forum?
Jamil Jivani: The reason for the forum is to show people there is a path forward. When we talk about these issues, people sometimes get stuck on diagnosing the problem.
We want to show that the government is making decisions every day that make this problem worse, and the government can make different decisions if it wants to. The government can stop hiring and firing people based on their skin color. The government can make all programs universal. The government can focus more on class inequality and less on racial differences. At the National Forum, we will present a series of ideas for how we can move the country forward. We are not just focused on the problems. We are focused on solutions too.
Elie Cantin-Nantel: What can people expect from the forum? Do you have a sneak peek for us?
Jamil Jivani: We are going to have a series of presentations from some great Members of Parliament: Vincent Ho from Richmond Hill, Sandra Cobena from York Region, and Shuvaloy Majumdar from Calgary. These are three of the best and brightest MPs in the country, and they will have presentations. We will also have Etienne-Alexandre Beauregard, author of Anti-civilisation. We are bringing people together from different parts of the country with different backgrounds and expertise. I think the presentations are going to be really strong.
Elie Cantin-Nantel: Several black conservatives face heavy criticism from the left. In the United States, individuals like Clarence Thomas and Larry Elder are constantly attacked. Here in Canada, Justin Trudeau once called you a “twofer,” which is a derogatory term. Why do you think people who call themselves progressives seem so fixated on race and become so upset when someone from a minority group thinks differently from them? What do you think is behind that?
Jamil Jivani: Unfortunately, I think a lot of liberals want to control people from minority communities by telling us what we are supposed to think and feel, and when we step outside of the liberal boundaries they put around us, they think they then get to point a finger at us and call us names, in many cases even call us slurs.
A lot of people want to be treated the same. We want to be acknowledged as equal citizens like everyone else, and that is what we are fighting for when we say we want to end Liberal racism.
The people who get upset at us for saying this, to me, they are exposing who they are, which is that they are not people who are on the side of equality. They are on the side of control and domination over others, and that is not what I believe in.
Elie Cantin-Nantel: As a black politician, would you say you have received more hate, racism, or backlash from people on the left than from people on the right?
Jamil Jivani: Yes, absolutely. Throughout my career, many liberals and people on the left have felt entitled to attack me because they think they know what I am supposed to think and say. That desire to control me and others who look like me, or who look like my father, or who come from culturally diverse communities, is a problem. It will never be acceptable to me. No matter how much they want that control, they will never have that control.
I believe people vote for me because they expect me to stand up for what is right and what is good. Judging people based on what they look like is not right and it is not good.
Elie Cantin-Nantel: The DEI industry became massive post 2020. Some consultants charge upwards of $7,500 an hour for anti-racism sessions. In Matt Walsh’s film “Am I Racist?” it is shown that some DEI practitioners argue that society is systemically racist and that there is no way for a white person not to be racist. Do you think the DEI industry is a genuine effort to promote equality, or has it perhaps become more of a way to sow division for profit? How do you view the DEI industry in Canada?
Jamil Jivani: I’m sure some of the people who call themselves DEI experts or consultants have good intentions, but the reality they need to acknowledge is that our society has not been helped at all by this framing around identity and public policy. The reality is that if we see communities disproportionately struggling in our economy, the solution is to strengthen people so they can compete and do well in the economy. The solution is not to institutionalize bias.
DEI activists say they do not want to see institutional bias, and then they advocate for policies that literally stamp members of minority communities with inferiority. They openly say in their job applications and job advertisements that they want you to state what colour you are so they know if they should hire you or not. That is a problem.
So even if some of the DEI folks have good intentions, we are at a point now where they have to acknowledge that what they are doing is wrong, and they are the modern version of every other struggle we have had in this country to get people to treat everyone fairly. They are now the people standing in the way of treating everyone fairly, and I want them to be self-aware of that. When we say we want to end Liberal racism, we are telling the DEI industry, you are not helping, you are hurting our society. Please stop.
Elie Cantin-Nantel: When I think of Liberal racism, two things come to mind. First, the idea that minorities are oppressed and therefore must act or vote a certain progressive way, which you have discussed.
Second is the negative attitude toward white people that appears among many on the left. We see this reflected in DEI policies, such as jobs that exclude white people, particularly white men, because they are reserved only for minorities. In Quebec and France, the term “anti-white racism” is increasingly used in public commentary. In the English-speaking world, however, activists often argue that anti-white racism does not exist. Do you think anti-white racism is real, and do you think it is a problem?
Jamil Jivani: Yes, anti-white racism is a thing and it is a problem. All kinds of racism should be treated as equally objectionable. And whether the government is discriminating against someone because they’re white or black, it should all be equally problematic in a fair society.
What this woke movement over the last decade has done is it has warped the public conversation to where we don’t want to acknowledge discrimination as discrimination, and instead we rationalize through government policy, some forms of discrimination while decrying others. That’s not what the Canadian ideal is. The Canadian ideal is that all citizens are treated fairly and equally, and that is what we are trying to spotlight when we say we want to end Liberal racism.
Elie Cantin-Nantel: There are black Canadians, and I know some of them personally, who say they have experienced and continue to experience racism in Canada. They have told me they feel profiled in stores or have had negative encounters with police. Do you believe black Canadians are still dealing with anti-black racism in Canada today?
Jamil Jivani: People are flawed and do treat each other poorly for sure. There are going to be examples of racism that we can point to and say this is wrong, and I certainly would never want to say that no one has ever been treated badly because of what they look like. That does happen in society.
At the same time, Canada is one of the most welcoming countries in the entire world and has been for quite some time, so I do not think any specific examples of racism necessarily reflect on the entire country.
What I will say, though, is that when someone feels like they are being profiled or treated unfairly, I think that is exactly the type of problem we are trying to solve. We are saying that everyone should be treated the same. We are the ones saying there should be no discrimination. Discrimination is never acceptable.
Elie Cantin-Nantel: There has been a debate, especially since 2020, about colour blindness. A lot of “anti-racist” activists and DEI advocates argue that you cannot be colour blind because it ignores structural racism. Others note that Martin Luther King explicitly called for a colour-blind society in his “I Have a Dream” speech. Do you think we should strive for colour blindness?
Jamil Jivani: As far as public policy is concerned, colour blindness is a good thing. One of the things Canadians are most proud of is universal health care. Imagine if the DEI movement controlled it and decided who gets to see a surgeon or specialist based on appearance. That goes against what we know is right. Canadians like universal policies that help everyone. They like universal policies that address helping the poor, for example, but not asking the poor to self-identify as a racial group before extending a hand up.
What this National Forum is about is bringing us back to our core values as Canadians, which is treating everybody the same and honouring citizenship as something that meaningful, not something that changes depending on where you come from.
This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.